Comments on: Margaret Lennox and love http://www.dorothydunnett.co.uk/blog/book-discussion/margaret-lennox-and-love.php Thoughts about the best historical fiction ever written Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:48:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Beth http://www.dorothydunnett.co.uk/blog/book-discussion/margaret-lennox-and-love.php/comment-page-1/#comment-18118 Beth Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:59:35 +0000 http://www.dorothydunnett.co.uk/blog/?p=54#comment-18118 I am coming to this post late, as a newly-addicted DD fan, or as my family would say obsessed fanatic. I breezed through the books in 2 months, and signed up for the AGM on a whim. I just re-read Kings in prepartion for the AGM and found so much info there that I had missed the first time through. One thing was 2 mentions (by Richard and I think Margaret) to the fact that Lymond saves his passion for ideas rather than for women. Another thing I found very revealing about his character was the fact that from an early age he used his intelligence and caustic tongue in a battle with Gavin. It occurred to me that this might have affected all of his relationships since he became used to never letting down his guard with anyone (Sybilla being the exception). He was also used to the idea from an early age that he was much smarter than most people and grew accustomed to revealing only what he wanted to reveal, and using his insights about others to manipulate them into doing what he wanted them to do. So these traits, developed from an early age, might have hurt his ability to let down his guard sufficiently to form a love relationship. I had the impression from my first read that Lymond stopped the affair with Margaret, rather than vice versa. Couldn't find anything supporting that the second time. But I think he must have had women admirers from an early age, and somehow I can't picture him smitten with Margaret. I think he would have seen through her, even at 16. I think their relationship fits well with the chess theme of the series, a back and forth between 2 opponents who are in many ways well-matched in skills and who play for the kill. It seems to me that both the relationships with Christian and Oonagh might have led to something deeper, had they not been thwarted so early. I haven't re-read Knights yet, but Lymond followed Oonagh to Malta, and tried repeatedly to rescue her, without ever knowing that she was pregnant, so I think his feeling for her was more than just one of responsibility. But there was never any opportunity for that relationship to develop further because of her death. Bill, your comments about Lymond's inability to form relationships were very helpful. But as much as I love Checkmate and the end of the series, that ties in to one thing that continues to puzzle me. Since Francis continued right up to the last 10 pages or so to insist he would not live with Phillipa, what caused him to change at the end? I can see Phillipa changing her mind and deciding to embrace him, but why did he accept at the end all of a sudden? When she made the first physical gesture, he was able to let go and let his emotions take control of his intellect, but why then? I feel like I am missing something; Phillipa's motivations are explained pretty clearly by her relief that he had not been killed, but I don't see what caused Lymond to change, other than perhaps just having been stripped down by all of the other events up to that point. I am coming to this post late, as a newly-addicted DD fan, or as my family would say obsessed fanatic. I breezed through the books in 2 months, and signed up for the AGM on a whim. I just re-read Kings in prepartion for the AGM and found so much info there that I had missed the first time through. One thing was 2 mentions (by Richard and I think Margaret) to the fact that Lymond saves his passion for ideas rather than for women. Another thing I found very revealing about his character was the fact that from an early age he used his intelligence and caustic tongue in a battle with Gavin. It occurred to me that this might have affected all of his relationships since he became used to never letting down his guard with anyone (Sybilla being the exception). He was also used to the idea from an early age that he was much smarter than most people and grew accustomed to revealing only what he wanted to reveal, and using his insights about others to manipulate them into doing what he wanted them to do. So these traits, developed from an early age, might have hurt his ability to let down his guard sufficiently to form a love relationship.

I had the impression from my first read that Lymond stopped the affair with Margaret, rather than vice versa. Couldn’t find anything supporting that the second time. But I think he must have had women admirers from an early age, and somehow I can’t picture him smitten with Margaret. I think he would have seen through her, even at 16. I think their relationship fits well with the chess theme of the series, a back and forth between 2 opponents who are in many ways well-matched in skills and who play for the kill.

It seems to me that both the relationships with Christian and Oonagh might have led to something deeper, had they not been thwarted so early. I haven’t re-read Knights yet, but Lymond followed Oonagh to Malta, and tried repeatedly to rescue her, without ever knowing that she was pregnant, so I think his feeling for her was more than just one of responsibility. But there was never any opportunity for that relationship to develop further because of her death.

Bill, your comments about Lymond’s inability to form relationships were very helpful. But as much as I love Checkmate and the end of the series, that ties in to one thing that continues to puzzle me. Since Francis continued right up to the last 10 pages or so to insist he would not live with Phillipa, what caused him to change at the end? I can see Phillipa changing her mind and deciding to embrace him, but why did he accept at the end all of a sudden? When she made the first physical gesture, he was able to let go and let his emotions take control of his intellect, but why then? I feel like I am missing something; Phillipa’s motivations are explained pretty clearly by her relief that he had not been killed, but I don’t see what caused Lymond to change, other than perhaps just having been stripped down by all of the other events up to that point.

]]> By: bill http://www.dorothydunnett.co.uk/blog/book-discussion/margaret-lennox-and-love.php/comment-page-1/#comment-18 bill Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:52:42 +0000 http://www.dorothydunnett.co.uk/blog/?p=54#comment-18 Yes indeed. Margaret and love are two concepts hardly to be mentioned in the same sentence. She wants to possess, to use. But sex is only to be enjoyed on her terms, and can be used at will in a greater game - that game is spelled P-O-W-E-R. She knows that Lymond has rare qualities that she could harness for her goal of taking a throne, or maybe even two, and would ditch her husband without a moments thought. And yet, I think it takes all Lymond's self-possession not to feel attracted to her peculiar talents. She *is* an exciting woman. In an age of men she is a rare commodity. A partner who is in many ways an equal to any man and a relationship with her would be heady brew. As the GoK re-read progresss I suspect I'll return to the subject of Meg Douglas! Yes indeed. Margaret and love are two concepts hardly to be mentioned in the same sentence. She wants to possess, to use. But sex is only to be enjoyed on her terms, and can be used at will in a greater game – that game is spelled P-O-W-E-R. She knows that Lymond has rare qualities that she could harness for her goal of taking a throne, or maybe even two, and would ditch her husband without a moments thought.

And yet, I think it takes all Lymond’s self-possession not to feel attracted to her peculiar talents. She *is* an exciting woman. In an age of men she is a rare commodity. A partner who is in many ways an equal to any man and a relationship with her would be heady brew.

As the GoK re-read progresss I suspect I’ll return to the subject of Meg Douglas!

]]> By: lindagillard http://www.dorothydunnett.co.uk/blog/book-discussion/margaret-lennox-and-love.php/comment-page-1/#comment-17 lindagillard Sat, 28 Oct 2006 20:48:14 +0000 http://www.dorothydunnett.co.uk/blog/?p=54#comment-17 Have to say I agree completely, Bill. I think Philippa was the first. That's why Francis doesn't recognise that that's what he feels for her - love is a strange new experience for him with no precedent. And I think that's why his realisation about his feelings for Philippa in RC is such an emotional highpoint for the reader - this IS a first. Don't you think too that Margaret operates at the pretty base level of "If I can't have Francis, nobody else will"? I don't think Margaret Lennox knows how to spell love. S-E-X is shorter. ;-) Cheers Linda Gillard Have to say I agree completely, Bill. I think Philippa was the first. That’s why Francis doesn’t recognise that that’s what he feels for her – love is a strange new experience for him with no precedent. And I think that’s why his realisation about his feelings for Philippa in RC is such an emotional highpoint for the reader – this IS a first.

Don’t you think too that Margaret operates at the pretty base level of “If I can’t have Francis, nobody else will”? I don’t think Margaret Lennox knows how to spell love. S-E-X is shorter. ;-)

Cheers

Linda Gillard

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